Episode 5: How Cheryl Mack became the most connected person in Australian Business

Dec 12, 2019

Cheryl Mack, who built Australia’s largest Startup and Growth conference StartCon, joins the Forward Thinking Podcast to share how she grew her personal business connections to over 8,000 and how you can do the same.

Cheryl is one of my favourite people in the Australian business ecosystem, we’re on a startup advisory board together here in Sydney and I can tell you from first-hand experience that she’s is a marketing genius.

In my conversation with Cheryl, we cover a wide range of topics including exactly how she built a highly targeted network of over 8,000 contacts, how to deal with self-doubt in your business and why it’s best to choose mentors for your business who are 6 to 12 months ahead of you on your journey.

Cheryl also tells a great story of when she met MC Hammer and the important lesson he taught her about mastering nerves when presenting.

So please enjoy this wide ranging discussion with Cheryl Mack.

What you will learn

  • How to build a highly targeted network of over 8k contacts
  • The best way to reach out to cold contacts on LinkedIn
  • The results of asking everyone you meet how you can help them
  • What MC Hammer taught Cheryl about mastering nerves before a performance when they met
  • Why you need to know your story
  • Why founder wellness is important
  • Why it’s best to choose mentors for your business who are 6 to 12 months ahead of you on your business journey
  • Dealing with self-doubt in business

 

Resources mentioned in this episode

StartCon

LinkedIn

Contacts+

HubSpot

Superhuman

Referral Hero

Freakonomics Podcast

Astro Teller – The Difficult Part of Building Driverless Cars

 

Book recommendations (there’s a few:)

Blink by Malcolm Gladwell

The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell

The Four Steps to the Epiphany by Steve Blank

The Lean Startup by Eric Ries

High Output Management by Andrew S. Grove

Good to Great by Jim Collins

Bad Blood  by John Carreyrou

Chaos Monkeys by Antonio Garcia Martinez

Freakonomics by Stephen J. Dubner

 

What business you would build on Mars?

A business that sells a mini pocket Earth, and this is a miniature Earth that you can keep in your pocket to remind you of the place that you came from. Or if you’re a new alien on Mars, to help you visualize the Earth you may one day visit and it’d be a little miniature version of Earth, maybe about the kind of palm of your hand that you could put in your pocket and it would have some sort of mechanic that when you hold it in your palm, it would spin in, the way that Earth does so that. I think we would market it as, “Keep a little piece of Earth in your pocket. You can’t see earth anymore, so now you can.”

 

Get in touch with Cheryl

Cheryl on LinkedIn

Cheryl on Twitter

 

Transcript

Brendan Hill
And I have a very special guest today, the most connected person in Australian business. Cheryl Mack, welcome to the show.

Cheryl Mack
Thank you very much for having me.

Brendan Hill
How did you get so many business connections? Can you tell me the story behind that?

Cheryl Mack
I built a business called StartCon for about four years, here in Australia. And the main thing that we were known for was creating the largest startup and growth conference in Australia with about 4,000 attendees each year as well as a pitch competition for new businesses to pitch to investors and get funding. And through that, we worked with a ton of partners in the tech ecosystem to bring their people to our conference, as well as a lot of investors, including corporates as well, and the government. So I ended up being connected to to quite a lot of areas within the ecosystem.

Brendan Hill
And there’s some rumors of how big your email database is. Are you at liberty to divulge how big it is?

Cheryl Mack
My personal contact list is about 8,000.

Brendan Hill
Highly targeted as well. That is impressive. So speaking about building a network, obviously really important for early stage businesses. So for people listening at home, they may have just kicked off their business, it may be an area that they have neglected in the past. How can these guys get started on building that network?

Cheryl Mack
So events are a huge portion of that. When you need to get your idea out there, you need to talk to people, you can start by going to events that have topics on things that you are particularly excited about, or that makes sense or relevant for your business. And going there, talking to each person, talking to the speakers, talking to the organizers, that’s a really great way to find out what the next step should be for you and your business, so events are a great way. Going on LinkedIn is another good way. I don’t necessarily recommend just going and adding every single person you find, but if you can find a couple of key people that are in your industry, that you would really benefit from talking to, reaching out cold on LinkedIn is perfectly acceptable. And I do get quite a few of those myself and I do respond to the ones that make sense for me.

Brendan Hill
So when you’re reaching out to someone on LinkedIn, what kind of message should we be sending? What kind of message do you respond to personally?

Cheryl Mack
Something that’s relevant. There’s no like secret sauce. “Oh, if you start your message with this, or if you say this particular word.” There’s no secret sauce. They’re the ones that are more relevant. So don’t just reach out and say, “Hey, I want to connect because you sound cool.” Tell me why you want to connect with me, why I would be interested in your business. But also, in that first message, it needs to be like one sentence. So don’t tell me in three paragraphs, tell me in one sentence, “Hey, I noticed you’re involved in financial technology, I’m starting a financial business, or a financial services business, and would like to speak to you about how you grew your business.” Done.

Brendan Hill
And do you keep track in some kind of CRM, all your contacts, or do you just put them in your email database? How should we track all these people?

Cheryl Mack
Yeah, so I do use a couple CRMs actually, my kind of personal one I use is Contacts Plus. It’s really good because it allows me to scan business cards, it uploads them automatically and it connects with my Gmail so I can pull directly as I’m sending emails. HubSpot is also a good CRM manager, but yeah, I also keep them like they… it syncs with my Gmail contacts, so my Gmail contacts are always updated as well. And I do try to put notes in there that allows me to put tags so that I know that person’s an investor, that person provides services. And I also try to update where I met that person as well. So that I can remember the relationship next time, you know, with 8,000 people.

Brendan Hill
Yeah, I’m going to say it’s definitely hard to keep in contact with all these people. A previous podcast guest, Oscar Trimboli, talked about being proactive in managing your contacts. So how do you keep in touch with these people? Are there certain touch points? How do we leverage these people to make our business a success?

Cheryl Mack
Yeah, so I mentor quite a few startups and I do like to check in with them every three months, and that’s just a simple email. Other people I try to connect with once a year, generally, if they’re just community friends, if I don’t see them then I’ll make a point of just making sure I shoot them an email and say, “Hey, I hope everything is going well. Is there anything I can help you with?” That’s one thing that, actually, I’ll just stop and point out one thing that I do that I think has been really instrumental for building my network, is that I always ask every person I meet, every time I meet them or see them, “What can I do to help? How can I help you?”

And 9 out of 10 people don’t take me up on it, but the ones that do, I’m able to drive value back to them, which makes me A, feel a lot less guilty when I need something from them, and it shares the love. And then the ones that don’t, know that I’m there and that’s super valuable because then I’m willing to help, and when I go back to them and ask for something, then it generally gets received very well. So that’s one thing that I think anybody can utilize that.

Brendan Hill
That’s definitely not lip service as well because the last time I saw you, you asked, “How can I help?” I said, “You can come on the podcast, Cheryl.”

Cheryl Mack
Yeah, exactly.

Brendan Hill
What a fantastic idea. So here we are. So I wanted to talk about the amazing speakers at StartCon when you were the CEO. Speakers from Uber, Pinterest, Atlassian. Are there any lessons that you learned from the speakers that really still stick with you today?

Cheryl Mack
Oh yeah, tons. One of my favorite ones is about running red lights. So one of the speaker talked about how, “Look, when you’re young and you’re early stage, it’s okay to run a few red lights, as in make some mistakes, but know which red lights are okay to run and which ones aren’t. And also if you do make a mistake, own up to it. And it’s okay, people are going to expect you to make mistakes, especially in the early stages. But if you do make one, it’s best to own up to it. Don’t lie about it.”

Brendan Hill
Yeah. Any others that stick out?

Cheryl Mack
We could probably do a whole podcast on this. I’ll tell you my favorite one. So this was a little while ago, but I was at the Startup Grind Global Conference and I had the absolute pleasure of speaking with MC Hammer.

Brendan Hill
Oh wow.

Cheryl Mack
Yeah. And I asked him, you know, I was actually about to go on stage to do an intro and it was a couple thousand people in the audience, and I said, “Hey, MC hammer. Do you still get nervous before you go on stage?” And he gave me the best answer. He goes, “You know that nervous feeling you feel in your stomach before you go on stage? That is excitement. Own it.” And I was like, “I love it.” That stuck with me.

Brendan Hill
That’s awesome. So you do a lot of presenting as well, what tips can you give early stage business owners? Every interaction they have is a pitch in some sense. People get nervous, not everyone’s MC Hammer. What tips can you give these guys?

Cheryl Mack
So the best tip that I can give you is know your story and think of each piece of your story as a part of a larger story. And if you know the story, then you can tell the story. And I want to give you an example, so I do quite a bit of pitch coaching, and this is an example that I give. Goldilocks and the Three Bears, right? Everybody kind of knows this story of Goldilocks, she goes into this house and she finds three bowls, and one of them is too hot, one of them is too cold, one of them is just right. She does so with the beds as well, right? And so I just told you that story in one way, but I could also tell you that story and I could say, “Goldilocks comes in, and she finds three bowls, and one of them is too cold, one of them is too hot, one of them is just right.” And so I switched those two.

It doesn’t actually matter whether I talked about the hot bowl first or the cold bowl second and knowing the elements of your story, even if you get them mixed up, you can generally still create your story and continue to tell it in a way that makes sense. So the message here is, don’t memorize exactly which piece needs to come next, because if you get messed up then you won’t be able to continue, you’ll need to start again. But if you know each of the pieces and a general sense of, “Okay, she needs to come in the door first before she gets into the bed.” Then you’re telling your story is going to be a lot easier when you’re in an elevator, when you’re onstage, try not to memorize, just know the story that you’re telling. And stories are great because everybody knows the story of Goldilocks and the Three Bears. I don’t need to memorize that story because everybody knows it. So think about just knowing your story and that’s it.

Brendan Hill
Amazing advice. And can you tell me about the moment when you realized that you wanted to work with early stage businesses and startups? What did that look like?

Cheryl Mack
The joke in my family is that I was born into it. My parents had their own company before startup was even a word.

Brendan Hill
What was that doing?

Cheryl Mack
They had a computer tech business.

Brendan Hill
Oh, wow. So very cutting edge at the time?

Cheryl Mack
Yes, it was. It was back in the day when IBM was still just making computers. And so yeah, I was born into it. I grew up with my parents building their own company, so I actually saw first hand the highs, and the lows, and the pitfalls, and the scary moments when we couldn’t afford to send me to ballet that week because… but then other times we’d go on lavish holidays to Florida because, granted there’s a whole story there about my parents probably just weren’t that great at cashflow, but I saw that firsthand. And so when I graduated university, I basically just started working for startups right away.

Brendan Hill
Straight into it.

Cheryl Mack
Yeah, I did get offered a couple of brand manager positions, which were the hot job at the moment when I was graduating, and decided that I did not want to be brand manager of L’Oreal’s mascara number 802 of their 8,000 products, which no offence to them, but that was my decision.

Brendan Hill
Yeah, interesting. And it’s come up a lot recently, a lot of podcast guests are talking about the lessons that they’ve learned from their parents that have had businesses. What sort of skills did you pick up from observing your parents running this cutting edge computer company?

Cheryl Mack
I hate to say it, but I probably got my work ethic from them. I spent a lot of time in the office as a kid, which I didn’t mind, but looking back, my parents were probably a bit of workaholics, and I can say during my time at StartCon I was definitely a workaholic. Maybe I’m in recovery now, but I probably picked that one up from them. But I also picked up a sense of taking care of your employees. I think my parents were really good to their employees, are than when they tried to hoist me off as a baby to them sometimes, but I think that that was something that I saw them do that I think is really, really valuable. I think I didn’t even quite grasp that until I had to build a team of my own. So yeah, I think that that’s another one.

Brendan Hill
Interesting, so in early stage business there’s a lot to do, as you said, you’re at StartCon, a lot of different responsibilities. How do you balance that? How did you get time for founder wellness?

Cheryl Mack
Ah look, I’ll be honest, I didn’t. I’ll be totally honest. I wasn’t particularly good at that when I was at StartCon, I’m better now. And you know, I’m still in a GM role so I have learned from my mistakes. But look, I would have to say like that wellness as a business owner, it’s actually a really important piece because if you burn out then your business has no chance. And so even if it does take like, “Look, I need to take a half day off to have a mental wellness day.” It doesn’t matter if things are on fire, you may think something is on fire, but very rarely does it really, really need to be addressed right, right now. There are almost a hundred percent chance that you could put that off by at least half a day if you need to take the time because it’s just going to be better off for you and your business in the long run.

Brendan Hill
Any other small examples besides the mental health wellness day that you’re implementing at the moment?

Cheryl Mack
Oh man, everyone loves the cold and the ice. I don’t know what’s going on with that.

Brendan Hill
Yeah, the ice baths.

Cheryl Mack
Look, I definitely saw a workshop on the ice bath when I was in LA last year and I cannot recommend it, but I think meditation, mindfulness is a really big one. If you don’t know what mindfulness is, I highly recommend Googling that and just exploring it a little bit. Headspace is a great app for that. I, personally, I always thought meditation was this idea that you had to sit alone in a room and clear your mind. And when I started to talk to people about what mindfulness was, which is kind of what I thought meditation was, I realized that that’s really not what it is and that there are a lot of mindfulness techniques that just help you get over obstacles that are present in your mind and they’re really, really simple techniques.

Some of them are just as simple as putting both of your feet on the ground and remembering and feeling that you’re touching the ground, and that you are here, you are present, you can do this. I just did one right now. They’re really simple ones and they help you feel grounded and help you feel confident to continue, especially in those moments when you get that email from that customer that you thought was going to come through as a million dollar deal and it falls through. Those are moments where you feel that anxiety and you might feel like your world is collapsing because your business might be, not cashflow positive, because that one client didn’t come in. So yeah, look, as a founder, or a business owner, I would highly recommend looking at mindfulness.

Brendan Hill
So while we’re on the topic of tools and resources, are there any marketing tools that you’ve used in the last year, maybe around the hundred dollar mark, that have made a significant impact?

Cheryl Mack
Look, I’m going to mention one that maybe doesn’t quite fit with your definition here, but I’ve recently gotten on to a newer email client that’s called Superhuman.

It’s a Gmail alternative, so it’s not like a autopilot or campaign monitor alternative. It actually helps you manage your Gmail better.

And this is a really cool tool. They’ve essentially sped up email, like I spend a lot of time in my email, and they have sped up the process of just spending three, four, or five hours a day in email. And they’ve allowed me to actually keep up with my contacts a lot better, so that’s when I will mention. There’s another one, I think they’re called ReferralHero now, they used to be called Maitre, and essentially they allowed you to create like a wait-list for your product. And this is a strategy that I’ve seen working a lot more and more recently, where people have created like wait-lists. So you can’t just come and buy my product, you have to join a wait-list, which is, funny enough, what Superhuman did.

You can’t just go and join Superhuman if you want to Superhuman, you have to come through someone like me who already is using it. Brilliant stuff.

Brendan Hill
We had Anna Cheng on the podcast in episode 2 who used a similar tactic at Spaceship. They had different cohorts on different wait lists, played them against each other to try and get them higher up the list. A really successful tactic.

Are you a big reader Cheryl?

Cheryl Mack
I am, yes. I do read quite a few business books. I enjoy the ones that are more like stories. Actually some of my favorite ones are by Malcolm Gladwell. He’s a great author. All of his books, Blink, Tipping Point.

Brendan Hill
A fellow Canadian, like yourself.

Cheryl Mack
Yes, exactly. But look, there’s a couple of business books that I would recommend everyone reads, Four Steps to The Epiphany.

Brendan Hill
Steve Blank?

Cheryl Mack
Yeah, from Steve blank. It’s an older book, but still a hundred per cent relevant.

The Lean Startup by Eric Ries. And High Output Management by Andy Grove. for anyone who needs to build or manage a team. That completely changed my understanding of how to be a good manager.

Cheryl Mack
From Good to Great, that’s another really good one. And then some more interesting ones. Recently I read Bad Blood, one of my favorite, favorite stories.

Brendan Hill
Elizabeth Holmes and Sunny Balwani?

Cheryl Mack
Yeah, you just can’t get enough of it. Bad Blood, that was a great book.

I would also recommend a book called Chaos Monkeys.

Brendan Hill
He talked at StartCon last year?

Cheryl Mack
Yes he spoke at StartCon, yeah, it was a really good book. And I also love the Freakonomics books.

Brendan Hill
Awesome. So I wanted to ask you what your struggles are. What’s in your current business black box? What problems are you trying to solve?

Cheryl Mack
You know, I feel like I am constantly trying to solve the hiring problem.

Brendan Hill
One of the most difficult problems.

Cheryl Mack
It is one of those difficult ones. I feel like I’m constantly hiring and it’s just very difficult. And I’ve rushed into it, I’ve held back, I’ve screwed up a lot of things when it comes to hiring, and I’ve realized that getting the hiring part right is really, really important. So that’s always a struggle. Another one is data. Always managing data and getting… making sense out of data is a problem that I am always struggling with.

Brendan Hill
Yeah, so many data sources as well.

Cheryl Mack
So many data sources, so many ways to interpret data. So much time is spent in trying to figure out the data that we have, and we have a lot of it, which is great. It’s a great problem to have, I guess, but that’s probably why there are so many tools out there.

Brendan Hill
And what has you most fired up and excited about marketing in 2019?

Cheryl Mack
I think we’re going to see the next generation of growth marketing hacks. There’s, every couple of years or so, you see this kind of new thing coming out that it’s like, “All that.” Right? So back, I don’t know, in the ’90s it was Hotmail putting, “This was sent through Hotmail.” At the bottom of every single email. You know how fast that thing caught on?

Then it was Airbnb going onto Craigslist, and just… or Gumtree for you guys, and stealing all of their customers that way. Super easy. You know? And then you saw the referrals. Give $20, get $20. Like that has just exploded. And it’d still work somewhat, but I think much less so. Right?

I would even take a gamble and say that the next thing is, that we’re going through right now, is probably this wait-list type thing.

Cheryl Mack
That’s the marketing tactic of the moment that is working really, really well. But I think it’ll probably phase out because once something is overused, people get desensitized to it, and so somebody needs to come up with the next thing that works.

Brendan Hill
And you mentioned that you mentor a lot of startups. Who are your mentors and why are mentors so important?

Cheryl Mack
Mentors are really, really important. They’re the people that you can bounce ideas off of, that you can share your business’ deepest, darkest secrets, right? Like you’re not out there tweeting on social about how you’re going to have to shut down tomorrow if that customer doesn’t come through with their invoice, or something. Right?

But your mentors are the ones that you can share those with. So look, yeah, I do mentor quite a few. My mentors, I won’t name them by name, but they’re not high profile people, they’re regular people. For the most part, if you’re going to choose a mentor, a mentor would be somebody that you feel is six months to a year ahead of you.

Because you don’t want them too far ahead, because then they won’t understand what space that you’re in. So somebody that has, and you know there’s flexibility there, but you want them to be just past where you are currently so that they can still relate, they can help you get through that. So a lot of my mentors are actually almost my peers. I mean, there’s debate as to who’s ahead in what sense. Right?

I don’t think that you should be trying to get a mentor that’s Elon Musk, or somebody, right? Your mentors should be your peers. And often times, some of my mentor situations go back and forth as well. It’s people that you can share your experiences with and get advice on how you’re feeling. And oftentimes, it’s just a bit of confidence boost, like half the conversations I have with the founders I mentor are around giving them that confidence boost to take the next step.

Brendan Hill
Yeah, six months ahead. That’s interesting. I haven’t heard of that before. Very interesting. And what advice would you give a 20 year old Cheryl Mack?

Cheryl Mack
20 year old? Let me think, where was I when I was 20? I think I would have been just graduating university. Yeah. I don’t know, “Invest in Bitcoin.”

Brendan Hill
That’s right. At 1 cent.

Cheryl Mack
Yeah. You know, I did. I actually did try to buy some Bitcoin. I sent $20 to Nigeria and it disappeared.

Brendan Hill
Did it disappear?

Cheryl Mack
Yeah, it was somewhere. I sent into the internet-scape. Look, confidence, I think there’s been a lot of self doubt. And a lot of people probably look at me and say, “Oh, you’re so confident.” And I’m like, “Yeah, I might look it, but most people, I think, are probably feeling similar to me and that there’s a lot of self doubt.” You know? “Can I actually do this?” And the answer, 99% of the time, is yeah, you can. So I think if I could talk to 20 year old Cheryl and tell her like, “Look, have the confidence to go and do what you’re doing because all that self doubt, it didn’t… like looking back, all that self doubt didn’t accomplish anything.” It probably just made my journey slightly harder.

I think choosing the right people to work with, and not just the ones that you hire, but in general like who you choose to work with in terms of partnerships or companies that you work for, choose people over anything else. If the role sounds amazing but you’re not confident on the boss, or the person, or even the company, follow your gut. If the deal sounds great and you know that customer is going to bring you $1 million in business, but he seems like a jerk and you’re not getting a good feeling from him, don’t work with him. The money’s not worth it because, I’m telling you how to experience, it doesn’t work out in the end. So choose the right people to work with.

Brendan Hill
So Cheryl, thanks for all the value that you’ve dropped today to the audience. You have made it through to the abstract question section of the podcast. Congratulations. We have a couple of abstract questions that we like to ask all of our guests.

So question number one, if you could have a billboard that all business owners could see, it could have text, visuals, whatever you want, where would you put it, and what would it say?

Cheryl Mack
Oh, where would I put it? All business owners. All business owners in Australia?

Brendan Hill
Or if it’s on the moon, I imagine everyone would see it.

Cheryl Mack
Yeah, like I’m thinking like satellite in orbit, you know?

Brendan Hill
Interesting.

Cheryl Mack
Or like one of those blimps that flies around, you know?

Brendan Hill
A blimp. That’s a good answer.

Cheryl Mack
Yeah. Those things that fly-

Brendan Hill
I feel like blimps went out of fashion for a while.

Cheryl Mack
No, but like you’re sitting on the beach on a Saturday, and the thing flies by with the banner. That could cover the whole world if you really, if you gave it enough gas. So maybe something like that. Something that flies and rotates around the earth. And what would it say to all business owners? Man. Oh, this is a tricky one. You know, good advice that I can fit on-

Brendan Hill
A tagline.

Cheryl Mack
Yes. I mean, I could be coming up with my tagline right now. Something like super positive, I think, honestly. Like, “You’re going to make it one day.”

Brendan Hill
It’s like the 20 year old Cheryl advice.

Cheryl Mack
I like to be positive, I think. There’s a lot of negative stuff in the world, call me an optimist, but you know.

Brendan Hill
What is the moment in business history that you would like to witness in person?

Cheryl Mack
I genuinely hope by the time I have a child, and that child needs to learn to drive, that driving will be a thing of the past. Because here’s my secret, I’m a terrible driver. I have zero desire to teach my child how to drive. So driverless cars kind of need to be a thing by the time I have a kid, and that kid needs to drive. That’s what I need to witness.

Like not just wanting to witness, it’s a real necessity that this happens in my lifetime.

Brendan Hill
Well, we’re not too far away, hopefully.

Cheryl Mack
I hope so. You know, they keep saying in the next five years, but I think they’ve been saying that for the last five years.

Brendan Hill
Yeah, I saw a talk at Google with Astro Teller in Sydney five years ago, and he said it would be here by now. But yeah, super exciting space. I think the most exciting thing, they’re going to get rid of all the car parks and turn those into green spaces.

Cheryl Mack
That’d be excellent. Yeah, because you wouldn’t need to park your car anywhere because it could just drive around for hours.

Brendan Hill
Well you’re killing the abstract question section of the podcast. I might throw in one more that I’ve never asked any other guest. What algorithm are you?

Cheryl Mack
What algorithm am I?

Brendan Hill
Are you the Amazon algorithm, are you the Spotify algorithm, and why?

Cheryl Mack
I’m going to have to go with Google, and here’s why. Because I tend to know a lot of random things about a lot, like I am your generalist at heart. Like you asked me about anything and I can probably give you a general overview of that particular thing. You know, like Google does, when you search something it can give you a general kind of little snippet answer at the top. So yeah, I would have to say Google.

Brendan Hill
And you’re good with collecting data as well?

Cheryl Mack
I am good with collecting data as well.

Brendan Hill
8,000 emails. Very nice. So Cheryl, thanks so much for coming in today. There’s one final question that we like to ask before I let you go. Are you ready for launch?

Cheryl Mack
I am ready for launch.

Brendan Hill
Because you’re on the first flight to Mars with Elon Musk and the first settlers aboard the SpaceX Star Ship rocket. So what business do you start when you land on Mars, and how do you market it to the new Martians?

Cheryl Mack
So I would start a business that sells a mini pocket Earth, and this is a miniature Earth that you can keep in your pocket to remind you of the place that you came from. Or if you’re a new alien on Mars, to help you visualize the Earth you may one day visit and it’d be a little miniature version of Earth, maybe about the kind of palm of your hand that you could put in your pocket and it would have some sort of mechanic that when you hold it in your palm, it would spin in, you know, the way that Earth does so that.

Brendan Hill
That’s cool.

Cheryl Mack
Yeah, I think we would market it as, “Keep a little piece of Earth in your pocket. You can’t see earth anymore, so now you can.”

Brendan Hill
A true marketer and I love it. So Cheryl, thanks so much for coming on today. You can find all of Cheryl’s resources in the show notes at metigy.com/podcast. And before we wrap up, Cheryl, is there anything you’d like to say, and how can people get in touch?

Cheryl Mack
Yes, look, I think starting a business is hard, but it’s super rewarding. And on the days that it feels like it’s not going great remember why you started your business in the first place, and capture that moment to revisit it every time you might feel like it’s not going your way. That’s the one last thing I will say, because a lot of amazing people have built businesses by surviving and thriving.

And how can you get in touch with me? LinkedIn’s a good way, although I’m not particularly great at LinkedIn messages, but once you connect with me, my email is available so you can find me, linkedin.com/cherylmack. Super easy, my full name.

And other than that, you can also find me on Twitter. It is C Mack, the number four, life. So C-M-A-C-K, number four, life. Cmack4life.

Brendan Hill
Awesome. Thanks so much for coming in, Cheryl. It’s been fun.

Cheryl Mack
Thank you.

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